In Conversation: Cassandra Louise Baker Interviews Devin Troy Strother

Devin Troy Strother, The Coloureds Series Part 3: Gurrrl I’m just talking about that composition, Gurrrrl what’chu know about that post modernism?
Mixed media, 4 x 4 ft.

In Conversation:  Cassandra Louise Baker Interviews Devin Troy Strother

Cassandra Louise Baker: The first time we ever met, I visited your studio in late Fall 2011. You told me this whole meta-narrative about these characters in your painting.   There was an entire back-story that I would not necessarily glean from my initial viewing of the work. At that very moment I realized there was so much more going on. And then you told me the titles.

Devin Troy Strother: That’s why the titles are so important. They inform and help the viewer to understand what is going on and they reinforce the narrative. Most of the titles come from stuff I hear; I always keep my ears open to things that people say, especially from African Americans and it usually comes from that kind of vernacular.

CLB: From my perspective, your work seems to be about the critique of the stereotype.

DTS: I guess it could be a critique of the stereotype, but it’s more an acceptance of the stereotype and an acknowledgement of it. There are a lot of truths that exist in the stereotypes. I don’t want to make work that is trying to denounce stereotypes or to breakdown a wall. I’m just trying to produce an image from my surroundings.

CLB: Do you identify with these characters that you are portraying?

DTS: I slightly identify with them, in certain ways, but there is definitely a disconnect. I didn’t want it to be an identity thing, but it’s something that you can’t really escape. Being a black artist you have to deal with the fact that you are black and making art.  I wouldn’t always say I am talking about black people. I think it is a lot more an American thing than a black thing actually. I feel black people have contributed so much to entertainment, media and really to the American identity as a whole. So I feel that it’s more American rather than a certain stereotype of a race. I’m not interested in making work that is about social change or about promoting black identity. I feel like a lot of black artists’ work stem from that and it’s super boring to me, I get frustrated that it is solely about that. I try to make work that people can relate to, work that is not standoffish or insular.

CLB: Your need to do things different is also apparent in how you have chosen to make your work.  It’s much more collage-based than painting, yet you refer to them strictly as paintings, why?

DTS: That came about because I’m a horrible painter. I didn’t feel confident in school so I needed to subvert that.  I was really into collage, it has this “crafty mom” thing associated with it, which I like but I didn’t want to just do collage. One day I decided to paint everything separately and glue it all down. I had a problem depicting depth and space, so I said “I’m gonna just embrace its flatness.”

CLB: I am always interested in how an artist’s environment influences their work and practice. You grew up in LA and went to school there. Has New York changed you?

Devin Troy Strother, 297 Niggas on Linen, 2012. Mixed media on linen, 72 X 60 in.

DTS: The art scene in LA feels a lot slower than in New York. There is great work in LA, but in New York there is so many more artists that come here to make work.

CLB: But I also notice a shift in the work that seems like a direct correlation and response to your new surroundings. For example: Tashanda and Tawanda Playing Inside a Big Ass Felix Gonzales Torres Pile or Quiesha’s Collection of Contemporary Glassware by ShayShay.

DTS: Yeah, yeah, yeah! I’m making art about New York now. The paintings that you are talking about came from this rise in what I call “slacker minimalists.” So many kids from our generation are doing this “I’m gonna put a fucking hat, and some rocks and a blanket on the ground and call it installation art.” Now everyone is a curator because everyone has a tumblr.  I don’t want to sound jaded but it has indirectly informed the work.

CLB: I’m still on this shift in the work because you surprised me with your piece in the armory this year, 297 Niggas.  I felt it was a nod to the New York school and to abstraction. The usual narrative was replaced by formal concerns. Am I right?

DTS: I had a crit at Skowhegan with Carrie Moyer and she was just talking about abstraction and how most of my work is narrative-based. She asked me if I could ever make an abstract painting, and that has really stuck with me and I think about it a lot.

CLB: But this really isn’t the very first abstract painting of yours that I have seen. What about A bunch of Nigga’s in the Dark which I was immediately drawn to because it reminded me of Ellen Gallagher’s work’s on paper Untitled (Doll Eye’s) series. Both these works seem very loaded in content, and deal with similar formal concerns.

DTS: You are totally right, that was really the first abstraction, and not part of the narrative based work, but loaded for sure. In the beginning I was trying to simplify the black form, so that was just an aesthetic choice — how do I simplify it and let everyone know this is a black person?  Using black face and the word “Nigga,” is so good because when people come to the work, they already have a preconceived idea about the word or the idea of black face. I like using things that have already been established by society, so people come to the work with this baggage. I need all the parts, really.  I have to use that language, in that gallery setting. In doing so I feel like it becomes a critique on class, and all types of stuff…

CLB: What’s next for Devin Troy Strother?

DTS: I’m not sure what is going to happen, I have only been making work for 3 years – 2.5 to be exact – and it has changed so much from then until now.  I have no idea what it’s going to be next year.

CLB: The best advice I ever received about being an artist was just to follow the work.

DTS: I am really excited to see where the work is going to go. I like to say to myself that “I want to be an absolutist, I only want to make paintings and I want have a strict practice.” But then, there are so many things I want to do, and I think it could spoil this thing that I am trying to do.

I think there is this weird correlation between what my paintings seem to be and what they actually are. It’s kind of like me growing up as a black kid.  I grew up primarily around Asian and white kids. Other black kids called me “Oreo” and “Wigga” and things like that. My work is this weird back in forth – not being content with who you are. It goes back to your question about the critique of the stereotype.  I don’t feel apart of it because I didn’t grow up in that setting.

CLB: I think that’s why I questioned you about the titles because when we have a conversation you don’t use those words.

DTS: They only time I use those words is when I am talking about the paintings. Some people have a problem with it. They think because I didn’t live that life, that I have no right talking about it. But, I can talk about these subjects because it is my culture. I can make a piece that is just called  “Nigga, Nigga, Nigga, Nigga, Nigga, Nigga…” if I want to.

CLB: Because I feel totally uncomfortable saying that word.

Devin Troy Strother, I don’t normally do this, but momma said you was specials (my first time). Mixed media, 24 x 16 in.

DTS: But then when you see the titles and read them I am giving you permission. I have been getting more negative feedback recently because of that, which is interesting. It makes me have to think about it more, but I’m not going to change because people are uncomfortable with that word.

CLB: That’s why you make cartoons. 

DTS: Oh yeah, for sure. If they were photorealist paintings they would be way more serious. It would be like if Kehinde Wiley used my titles, you know what I mean? It would be so…I don’t know, maybe it would work out better, I highly doubt it because I hate that guy’s paintings. I hate Kehinde Wiley, you can put that in the interview.

CLB: Oh Devin, I’m really not interested in starting a feud.

Both Laugh

DTS: Do it! Do it!  Contemporary Art World Beefs! Let’s start that shit right now!

CLB: Oh boy here we go.

DTS: I saw him at the Armory show and I gave him the dirty eye, I gave him a look like “I’m coming for you, remember my fucking face ‘cuz I coming for you!”

Devin Troy Strother is represented by Richard Heller Gallery, Los Angeles, CA and Monya Rowe Gallery, New York City, NY