| (10:58:00 AM) Harm van der Dorpel: yesterday i visited the (galerie west) vvork talk show thing (10:58:03 AM) Damon Zucconi: haha (10:58:07 AM) DZ: talk show. how was it (10:59:08 AM) HD: well, often in discussions like these, i have the feeling it’s more about people wanting to say something, and not so much about the thing itself. ego (10:59:21 AM) DZ: yeah i can see that (11:00:06 AM) HD: some people were saying that with blogs like vvork, artworks lose their aura (11:00:15 AM) HD: and that everything gets superficial |
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(10:58:00 AM) Harm van der Dorpel: yesterday i visited the (galerie west) vvork talk show thing
(10:58:03 AM) Damon Zucconi: haha
(10:58:07 AM) DZ: talk show. how was it
(10:59:08 AM) HD: well, often in discussions like these, i have the feeling it’s more about people wanting to say something, and not so much about the thing itself. ego
(10:59:21 AM) DZ: yeah i can see that
(11:00:06 AM) HD: some people were saying that with blogs like vvork, artworks lose their aura
(11:00:15 AM) HD: and that everything gets superficial
(11:01:13 AM) DZ: that sounds like it comes from a different century
(11:01:49 AM) HD: and then the question was asked, if the documentation of works online is becoming the work itself. i think that’s where it starts to get interesting for me
(11:02:13 AM) DZ: yeah
(11:02:43 AM) HD: because people don’t seem to mind when they visit a blog if they see representations of works, or the actual (web)work. so already physical objects as are work very much as independent things online and seeing them in person is often a disappointment
(11:04:17 AM) DZ: the context and "pacing" of the work would be different. although i agree with that
(11:04:32 AM) HD: pacing = placing
(11:05:35 AM) DZ: no i think the way the work exists in time in a gallery is slower. that may be just me though
(11:06:43 AM) HD: i agree with that, and in that sense i am less extreme compared to oliver, who said in the end that seeing a work online like in youtube gives him enough as seeing a video in gallery. i think both physical en virtual shows are here to stay. just like we still read books
(11:08:01 AM) DZ: yeah. two different paradigms; and they overlap at points
(11:08:41 AM) HD: some people were really complaining in the talk that the internet and blogs were blurring their authenticity. so some of them said proudly that they refrain from vvork
(11:09:18 AM) DZ: whoa
(11:31:45 AM) HD: maybe we both should invent a few questions we’ll ask each other, about our work and then pose them through chat
(11:32:27 AM) DZ: yeah i was also thinking we could set up a page on the wiki or something and more formally author it?
(11:32:54 AM) HD: that would be a good idea. but still we need some thread, or questions, or a subject matter
(11:33:29 AM) DZ: yeah
(11:34:57 AM) HD: one subject matter that interests me, and it is not a complete coincidence (yesterday vvork), is the relevance of seeing works in person, and to what extent work can be virtually consumed
(11:36:44 AM) DZ: yes, how they spatially sort of manifest themselves at different levels of real and virtual which can be a kind of baroque thing. i was thinking about your work in the context of animation too as a kind of way to subvert the hierarchy of how the image is received or as articulating some kind of internal dynamics. i know oliver was talking about it with those gifs he was doing, as displacing formal systems and the hierarchy of rows of pixels
(11:39:45 AM) HD: i like to think of my animation as moving still, or static animations. i always use found footage, because i want the medium picture, not making the object myself
(11:41:37 AM) DZ: your falling animations seem very subversive
(11:42:12 AM) HD: i think of it as the apocalypse
(11:42:17 AM) DZ: hahaha. i was reading this http://www.dextersinister.org/index.html?id=65 which is playing with the idea of the rapture, and the buildings are made with some sort of nano-material which is being programmed to disintegrate or to some extent. so everything is melting
(11:44:35 AM) HD: in 2019. i;’ve always been afraid of the rapture
(11:45:38 AM) DZ: the christian rapture? (i went to catholic high school)
(11:45:38 AM) HD: i like to explore this state between dead alive and trance and sleeping. i think that’s why i wanted to do this with you, because of the trance state rave movies. slow rave
(11:46:58 AM) DZ: yeah, those definitely come from similar circumstances. they are slowed down by articulating the pauses in between frames
(11:47:26 AM) HD: to me it really came close to the actual druggy state one might have on a rave because trance is so internal. Introvert.
(11:48:11 AM) DZ: interchronic maybe
(11:49:09 AM) HD: when i google that word, you website appears on top
(11:49:16 AM) DZ: aahhahh! hooray i beat out robert smithson
(11:50:22 AM) HD: the interchronic pause when nothing is happening. It is the void between events.
(11:51:01 AM) DZ: yeah i love that
(11:54:50 AM) HD: i checked out your 0-00-00 work
(IMAGE: realvsfake.gif)
(11:55:51 AM) DZ:
(11:55:54 AM) DZ: i love that
(11:56:04 AM) DZ: someone on a message board doing an analysis of the image
(11:57:55 AM) HD: between the original and your version?
(11:58:05 AM) DZ: ya
(11:58:21 AM) HD: why would anybody do that?
(11:58:45 AM) DZ: http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21308 trying to decipher its meaning or something
(11:59:30 AM) HD: thats so cool
(11:59:35 AM) HD: they have no clue
(11:59:54 AM) DZ: apparently they figured it out now !
(11:59:55 AM) DZ: hah
12:00
(12:00:35 PM) HD: maybe you should put a link to this forum on your site
(12:00:48 PM) HD: Why would someone go through the work of creating the site? what would they have to gain?
(12:00:50 PM) DZ: yeah i archived the forum pages
(12:01:03 PM) DZ: yeah and them discussing what is real and why
(12:01:40 PM) HD: this would have never happened if you were vain and you would have put you name or copyright notice on the site
(12:02:04 PM) DZ: yeah, its out "in the wild"
(12:02:07 PM) HD: many people always put their name and the year on a www.werwer.com
(12:02:08 PM) HD: yes
(12:02:11 PM) HD: it’s a site
(12:02:19 PM) HD: and not necessary only a work of art
(12:02:37 PM) DZ: the function flips
(12:02:50 PM) DZ: which is actually really bizarre to break down
(12:02:54 PM) HD: i am almost doubting if you did not set up the forum 🙂
(12:02:57 PM) DZ: hahaha
(12:03:10 PM) DZ: there are a bunch of discussions on many forums, its so insane
(12:03:13 PM) HD: there’s a lot of layers going on here
(12:03:34 PM) HD: suddenly some music started playing loud on my computer i freaked out
(12:03:38 PM) DZ: hahahahhaha
(12:03:45 PM) DZ: yeah! its part of the original site
(12:03:47 PM) HD: wasthere supposed to be music on any of these xx-xx-xx sites
(12:03:49 PM) HD: ok
(12:03:54 PM) DZ: hehe
(12:03:55 PM) HD: internet is shitty here
(12:04:03 PM) HD: i am in an outskirt of amsterdam
(12:04:08 PM) DZ: its supposed to be delayed by like 7 minutes
(12:04:34 PM) DZ: hey can you tell me more about those wireframe works you did?
(12:04:42 PM) HD: which ones
(12:04:50 PM) DZ: http://www.harmlog.nl/?thing=wireframes&partid=99
(IMAGE: wireframes_temple.jpg)
(12:05:20 PM) Harm: to me they are like a residue of an object
(12:05:31 PM) Harm: or a kind of abstract representation
(12:05:40 PM) Harm: they are somehow also dead
(12:05:52 PM) Harm: and wireframes are also drawing
(12:06:00 PM) Harm: without dimensions when photographed
(12:06:28 PM) Harm: which is related to http://www.harmlog.nl/echoing/
(12:06:37 PM) DZ: i like thinking of them as a residue because they come of as timeless. or out of time
(12:07:29 PM) Harm: i tried to make an animation in which you could see me draw object as wireframes
(12:07:39 PM) Harm: somehow i paused that project
(12:07:50 PM) DZ: that echoing piece deals with browser space unlike anything ive experienced 🙂
(12:09:19 PM) Harm: i once presented it on a big touchscreen
(12:09:26 PM) Harm: that worked very well
–
(12:15:41 PM) HD: what do you think of http://www.newrafael.com?
(12:16:37 PM) DZ: i think its pretty great, but im sometimes skeptical of the humor
(12:16:43 PM) DZ: some of the pieces are phenomenal though
(12:17:16 PM) DZ: actually i think the humor is all in my head
(12:18:02 PM) HD: his work is always about defining browser space somehow
(12:19:10 PM) DZ: http://www.vaiavanti.com/ really works for me
(12:19:16 PM) DZ: i just looked up the translation of that
(12:19:26 PM) DZ: which means "you go ahead"?
(12:19:26 PM) HD: go ahead?
(12:19:29 PM) HD: yes
(12:19:29 PM) DZ: i didnt know
(12:19:40 PM) HD: its italian i think
–
(12:45:26 PM) HD: did you do artschool?
(12:46:44 PM) DZ: yeah
(12:46:50 PM) DZ: i recently graduated
(12:47:05 PM) DZ: interdisciplinary sculpture at the maryland insititute college of art
(12:47:20 PM) HD: i graduated one year ago
(12:47:29 PM) HD: i studied artificial intelligence before that
(12:47:44 PM) DZ: oh wow
(12:47:45 PM) HD: gerrit rietveld art academy in amsterdam
(12:48:02 PM) DZ: i wish my background was a bit more diverse
(12:48:30 PM) HD: well, you set up you own theory library
(12:48:47 PM) DZ: theres always that
(12:49:18 PM) DZ: i havent even read a good part of that. which is most of my motivation for putting it online
(12:49:33 PM) DZ: im better with paper books than ebooks
(12:49:51 PM) HD: i started reading again a year ago
(12:49:58 PM) HD: before that i didn;t have the rest
(12:50:09 PM) HD: i was too restless
(12:50:14 PM) HD: but now i started
(12:50:36 PM) DZ: yeah, i couldnt read fiction for the longest time. then i read neuromancer (as nerdy as that may sound)
(12:51:00 PM) DZ: now i read alot of sci fi to supplement french critical theory (lol)
(12:51:09 PM) HD: my reading started even nerdier i;m afraid
(12:51:15 PM) HD: godel escher bach 🙁
(12:51:15 PM) DZ: oh no!
(12:51:17 PM) DZ: hahahahha
(12:51:20 PM) DZ: nerdd
(12:51:39 PM) HD: but i skipped the dialogues, they were just to badly written
(12:51:55 PM) DZ: i never read it aside fromm a breif flip through
(12:52:09 PM) HD: i expected more from it
(12:52:20 PM) DZ: it seems like it has quite a reputation
(12:53:01 PM) HD: now i am reading jPod
(12:53:13 PM) HD: which is more geeky than nerdy
(12:53:30 PM) HD: 8)
(12:53:40 PM) DZ: oooo yeah
(12:53:41 PM) DZ: how is that
(12:53:55 PM) DZ: haha the site for it is ridic
(12:54:17 PM) HD: all the main characters are now writing letters to ronald mcdonald to convince him they should be (love)partners
(12:56:03 PM) DZ: im reading: http://www.semiotexte.com/authors/vonSchlegell.html
(12:56:07 PM) HD: and the book is full with spam
(12:56:09 PM) DZ: hahahahha
(12:56:11 PM) DZ: excellent
(12:57:07 PM) HD: don’t you have that problem with sci fi future stuff, that it is so disconnected to daily life that you cannot relate to it anymore
(12:57:31 PM) DZ: nope
(12:57:36 PM) DZ: im not sure if it is disconnected though
(12:57:46 PM) HD: i don;t know this particular book
(12:57:58 PM) HD: and i also havent read enough
(12:58:08 PM) HD: but just, that has often been my first impression
(12:59:05 PM) HD: but you also construct the future by imagining it now
(12:59:07 PM) DZ: well i still cant read non-sci-fi
(12:59:39 PM) HD: are you longing for the future
(12:59:42 PM) DZ: i think sci fi offers a good lens to view things in some kind of truer state
(12:59:51 PM) DZ: not so much as im longing for more possibilities
(12:59:52 PM) HD: interpolate here an now
(1:00:38 PM) HD: what year is venusia written
(1:01:01 PM) DZ: written in 2005
(1:01:25 PM) DZ: semiotexte publishes good sci fi, which they do right along side stuff like deleuze and baudrillard
(1:01:31 PM) HD: this sounds great: "With his Reality-V girlfriend Martha Dobbs, neuroscop operator Sylvia Yang, his midget friend Niftus Norrington and a sentient plant, Rogers wages a war to alter the shape of spacetime"
(1:01:35 PM) DZ: hahaha
(1:01:43 PM) DZ: its not as pulpy as it sounds too
(1:01:49 PM) HD: i believe that
(1:02:03 PM) HD: indeed, also because of the names this book is surrounded by on the site
(1:02:28 PM) DZ: i love that quote on the top. it comes from the founding regimes ideology in the book
(1:02:51 PM) HD: this part?: "Primitive literacy is redundant. Mere words are expelled. We inaugurate a world of pure presence. The mind, that intrudes itself between ourselves and those memories too terrible to know, must keep us moving beyond the grasp of their claw. To control the flow, it will be necessary that political order be imposed always temporarily. The state shall enjoy direct, creative access to the real."
(1:02:56 PM) DZ: yeah
(1:03:00 PM) HD: it sounds also like a tiesto song text
(1:03:03 PM) DZ: haha!
(1:03:08 PM) DZ: awesome
(1:03:21 PM) DZ: oh i found the best instance of hotlinking to images on my site the other day
(1:03:48 PM) DZ: oh no he changed it! 🙁
(1:03:51 PM) DZ: it was someones myspace profile
(1:03:56 PM) DZ: that was tiesto’d out
(1:03:57 PM) HD: what was it
(1:04:40 PM) DZ: he set the tiesto neon image in all these nested table backgroudns
(1:05:14 PM) DZ: it makes me wonder how someone like that would come across the image in the first place though
(1:05:18 PM) HD: was it in the context of your art, or was it a real tiesto fan
(1:05:24 PM) DZ: real tiesto fan
(1:05:29 PM) HD: cool
(1:05:35 PM) DZ: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=27910712
(1:05:38 PM) DZ: that guy
(1:05:41 PM) HD: same construction of your xx-xx-xxxx site
(1:05:53 PM) DZ: yeah, the slippage
(1:06:28 PM) HD: your quotes and modifications of popular culture are sometimes so subtle, that the people who are fans can still relate to it
(1:08:41 PM) DZ: which is good since i think i can relate to it often in the first place
(1:09:10 PM) HD: it somehow undermines the lowbrow highbrow thing
(1:09:28 PM) DZ: yeah im concerned about that. i dont in anyway intend it to be a value judgement
(1:10:12 PM) HD: i think you notice the higher ‘truths’ in things like tv programs and rave culture, and reveal them, but not discarding them as lower value
(1:10:14 PM) DZ: i think alot of that work can be looked at as making really heavy handed value judgements
(1:10:39 PM) DZ: yes, that is my interest
(1:11:20 PM) DZ: i was thinking of your work as revealing some higher "truths" in things like interface design
(1:11:48 PM) DZ: although this word "truths" we are using is not the right word
(1:12:14 PM) HD: ‘spiritual experience’
(1:12:29 PM) HD: i can’t hide my christian background 🙂
(1:12:41 PM) DZ: haha
(1:13:01 PM) HD: in my work i try to be hyperficial
(1:13:06 PM) HD: it is about the surface
(1:13:17 PM) DZ: yeah that is a good term
(1:13:48 PM) HD: interchronic hyperficiality
(1:13:53 PM) HD: title of the article
(1:14:03 PM) DZ: B)
(1:14:14 PM) HD: is that glasses as in cool sunglasses ….
(1:14:18 PM) DZ: oh yeah def
(1:14:25 PM) DZ: not nerdy glasses
(1:14:28 PM) DZ: 8)
(1:14:28 PM) HD: noo
Specific questions & thoughts:
DZ: Are your deconstructions and resurrections deterministic?
DZ: I was thinking about some of the art historical falls (Bas Jan Ader’s work, Nauman Failing to Levitate, etc) (http://www.tate.org.uk/tateetc/issue4/boundtofail.htm) and how you are able to inverse the fall (the deconstructions > resurrections) because of their lack of physicality. Kind of as if there was a "systems physicality." There seems to be a theme of converting typical physical systems like gravity (Windows Washing machine) into different orders (a screen, an image) and through the process of conversion what’s left is nothing but a residue.
(IMAGE: windowswashingmachinedetail.jpg)
[4:16:56 PM] HD: if we continue here it is the same time
[4:17:05 PM] HD: as yesterday
[4:17:25 PM] DZ: perfect
[4:17:26 PM] DZ: hello
[4:17:35 PM] HD: when we stopped
[4:17:41 PM] HD: good day
[4:17:45 PM] DZ: likewise
[4:17:57 PM] HD: i lost the address of the wiki
[4:19:12 PM] DZ: http://content.reticular.info/forum/pmwiki.php?n=Conversation.Index
[4:19:19 PM] HD: thanks
[4:19:31 PM] DZ: i want to try to go through it to pull out some specifics but ihavent gotten the chance
[4:19:44 PM] DZ: i tried to start wrritign some more specific questions at the bottom though
[4:20:28 PM] HD: very good!
[4:20:56 PM] DZ: B)
[4:22:05 PM] HD: i think this is indeed the way to go, i’ll try to answer your questions, and post a few to you as wel
[4:22:18 PM] DZ: goodgood
[4:23:40 PM] HD: do you get notifications when something in your wiki changes
[4:26:39 PM] DZ: theres a way to set up a feed for http://content.reticular.info/forum/pmwiki.php?n=Conversation.RecentChanges
[4:26:58 PM] DZ: i think i need to activate it or something
[4:27:28 PM] HD: for me it is ok to regularly just check
[4:27:41 PM] DZ: k
[4:27:43 PM] HD: or notify manually
[4:27:51 PM] HD: nice cnn movie
[4:27:56 PM] DZ: heh
[4:28:21 PM] HD: well ‘nice’
[4:28:28 PM] HD: also freaky
[4:28:36 PM] HD: shiver shiver
[4:29:11 PM] DZ: uh yeah
[4:29:37 PM] HD: are you ever afraid of apocalypse
[4:29:58 PM] HD: or, at least, is time linear, with an end
[4:30:16 PM] DZ: no not really
[4:30:50 PM] DZ: and i dont think im in much of a position to say if it has an end or not
[4:30:56 PM] DZ: so id rather not speculate i suppose
[4:33:05 PM] HD: can you explain your first question a bit, do you mean to ask if i think that the resurrections are a logical inevitable step after deconstruction?
[4:36:01 PM] DZ: hmmm, i mean if the animations have a specific trajectory, like if there is only one possibility. but i think that question is kind of vague
[4:40:26 PM] HD: both bas jan ader and bruce nauman evoked a failure themselves. the imposed into themselves. afraid of a possible failure, the were it a step ahead.
[4:40:44 PM] HD: i often forget the y in the word they
[4:41:40 PM] DZ: a good point
[4:44:00 PM] DZ: thinking about that confuses my thinking about failure in relation to your work. or rather it becomes alot more complex
[4:45:46 PM] HD: yes, it’s a different thing. i show failures in work, and i succeed in that
[4:46:01 PM] HD: but the work itself is not a failure, but it is about failure
[4:46:10 PM] HD: and.. resurrection
[4:46:21 PM] DZ: i think it does produce the action of failing though
[4:46:29 PM] DZ: since it could be thought of in some way as a system
[4:47:32 PM] HD: i do like that idea, of making a failed work, it releases from a lot of strains
[4:50:45 PM] HD: – i am going through your site searching for works about failure –
[4:51:23 PM] DZ: maybe http://www.donotgogentleintothatgoodnight.com/
[4:53:44 PM] DZ: its a loop from a scene in independence day where the military fails to communcate with the alien race, they are immediately destroyed right after the loop point.
[4:54:17 PM] DZ: do not go gentle into that good night is also from a dylan thomas poem that is quoted in this horribly nationalist speech towards the end
[4:54:35 PM] HD: i have seen this work from you before
[4:54:50 PM] HD: it is very much about that interchronic moment
[4:54:59 PM] HD: quietness before a blast
[4:55:05 PM] HD: i like that
[4:55:08 PM] DZ: it just hovers there, never making contact but just attempting
[4:56:19 PM] HD: it is a poetic theme i think
[4:57:07 PM] HD: – now i am playing devil’s advocate – do you think this work for example works best online
[4:57:27 PM] HD: with the lowres compression feel
[4:57:51 PM] DZ: its the highest res i could pull off a dvd rip
[4:58:04 PM] HD: because to me the context of the browser adds more fascinating layers to the work
[4:58:21 PM] HD: this is not a critique
[4:58:26 PM] DZ: i know
[4:58:30 PM] DZ: i agree with you
[4:58:54 PM] HD: because somehow for us, showing works online feels quite natural
[4:59:33 PM] DZ: accessibility and being able to connect with one another
[5:00:20 PM] DZ: the notion of a sort of cinematic apparatus hovering in the browser window is interesting too
[5:00:24 PM] HD: i think it works well here, and with the 00-00-000, because you place a thing from public domain, back in public domain (although altered)
[5:00:49 PM] HD: if it were in a gallery than it would be less strong
[5:00:58 PM] DZ: with that kind of viral marketing that they are employing for the film, its much like a cargo cult; the viewers
[5:01:02 PM] DZ: where something washes ashore
[5:01:15 PM] DZ: and the audience constructs complex narratives around it
[5:01:32 PM] DZ: i think that is why alternate reality gaming is so appealing to some
[5:01:49 PM] DZ: the chance to construct meaning around otherwise mundane circumstance
[5:01:50 PM] DZ: s
[5:03:22 PM] DZ: i think it will be interesting to see how that type of marketing evolves since we will have to think of new ways to deconstruct it other wise it will become all pervasive
[5:04:04 PM] HD: marketing is already deploying ‘our’ methods
[5:05:15 PM] HD: do you mean with ‘alternate reality gaming’ multiplayer games like second life, warcraft etc.?
[5:05:45 PM] DZ: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_reality_game
[5:06:07 PM] DZ: they are essentially advertisements which merge with the life of the player
[5:06:18 PM] DZ: well not always but they are typically tied to products
[5:06:23 PM] DZ: movies
[5:07:15 PM] DZ: with this 1-18-08 film, the marketing is starting to play out like an ARG
[5:08:42 PM] HD: i understand now, such things has also been done here, but much smaller scale
[5:08:50 PM] HD: desperados beer
[5:08:57 PM] HD: and for some computer games
[5:10:17 PM] HD: do you think in the case of 1-18-08 the possible ARG is about more that just commercial exposure?
[5:11:16 PM] DZ: it expands the capacity of the film to immerse maybe
[5:15:59 PM] DZ: i think what was interesting about my intersection was the way in which the existing fan base quickly dissected content of the image to determine whether or not it was "real" or "fake" and their assumptions about what is "real" and "fake" to begin with. this notion of a suspension of authenticity is central to all of those actions
[5:19:35 PM] HD: i like this part so much: Why would someone go through the work of creating the site? what would they have to gain?
[5:20:27 PM] HD: this work has taken a completely different direction, different from the works from ‘lost’ and the helicopter
[5:20:33 PM] HD: but it initially started like those
[5:20:39 PM] HD: so nice
[5:21:18 PM] HD: you are put into this new directions, but do you actually want to explore that
[5:21:36 PM] HD: is it related to this fascination for freezing time
[5:22:35 PM] DZ: initially i was trying to figure out a way to "unhinge" the way the original site was centering (wrong word…) itself. having photos that are timestamped with a date that hasnt yet occurred is a very peculiar state for an image to have
[5:22:59 PM] HD: very david lynch
[5:22:59 PM] DZ: their reality was so vague
[5:24:15 PM] DZ: but i think the fanbases reception of those images is tied to that
[5:24:24 PM] DZ: their ability to suspend autheticity or something
[5:25:12 PM] HD: i had never heard of the movie, is it a big thing in the states?
[5:26:05 PM] DZ: http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/11808/
[5:26:42 PM] DZ: there is a resonable amount of hype i guess. i think another part of my interest in it is how its filmed. pretending to be shot using camcorders but integrating high end cgi
[5:28:41 PM] DZ: it recalls people starting to think about the autheticity of something like those osama bin laden tapes
[5:28:45 PM] HD: my first association is with the whole 9-11 thing
[5:28:50 PM] HD: yes exactly
[5:29:03 PM] HD: the monster is the axis of evil
[5:29:10 PM] DZ: haha
[5:30:02 PM] HD: sometimes that is tricky with your works, it requires some pre-knowlegde about your subjects. ‘lost’ was not showed in europe, and this movie will probably come half a year after the premiere in the states
[5:30:44 PM] DZ: yeah i found it so bizarre when it dawned on me that lost wasnt all pervasive
[5:31:31 PM] HD: also blair witch project had that arg thing a bit
[5:31:57 PM] DZ: the whole low quality equating autheticity
[5:32:24 PM] HD: yes, but there was also a campagne, and the movie itself as well, as if it all happened
[5:32:46 PM] HD: increasing the credibility , and making it even scary
[5:33:27 PM] DZ: yah
[5:49:36 PM] HD: enjoyed talking to you, again
[5:49:46 PM] DZ: yeah i can do it. see you
[5:50:03 PM] DZ: likewise\
