The Adult Game: Interview with Fabiola Naldi
Stefano Pasquini
SP: This
book has a particular chapter about Glam Rock. In this case we don’t have
the artist on the other side of the lens, we have a photographer called Mick
Rock.
FN: This
can be seen as a provocative choice. This whole scene starts in 1974, when Jean-Christope
Amman organizes an exhibition in Basel titled Transformer. He puts together artists
such as Urs Lüthi, Luigi Ontani, Jürgen Klauke, with David Bowie, Lou
Reed, Brian Eno. He wants to evidence the fact that finally this commotion made
sense, it was something in the air between 1970 and 1975. Here Mick Rock acts
as Man Ray did with Duchamp when he took the photograph of Rrose Sèlavy,
there is a compenetration of intents and atmospheres.
SP: Do you
see this as an anticipation of the figure of the artist as a rock star?
FN: This
already happened with Futurism, with the difference that we don’t have documentation
of these events. Surely the 70s saw the first episodes where the artist could
also become a pop star, where pop stands for popular, not pop-music.
Possibly Matthew Barney is the most alternative case of this, the most unusual.
SP: How
do you see him within this context?
FN: I used
the Cremaster episodes to explain the formalization of Barney’s work, but
what interests me the most in his work is the continuous tension within opposites,
which is typical of the photographic process. This background ambiguity that
links a mechanical means with an aesthetic one is extremely important in Matthew
Barney’s work. There is always physical, psychological and emotional tension.
In his photographs Barney doesn’t just shoot the movie scene as a documentation,
he gives you very specific photographs, something other than a mere documentation.
SP: He’s
probably the most theatrical artist you included in the book…
FN: Yes,
together with Morimura. The theatricality of Matthew Barney is a means to make
things as baroque as possible, to create further contrast. At one stage I cite
Renato Barilli when he defines “Cold Baroque”. Baroque is the hottest
artistic moment, because it’s hyper-kitsch, hyper-charged, hyper-decorative.
When you bring this situation to excess, automatically things get cooler, they
become anaesthetized. The plus-value of this means is anaesthetized, which is
what Matthew Barney does. Who thinks of his work as kitsch is plainly wrong,
he is indeed very rational, very cold, provoking the spectator with a continuous
tension.
SP: You
talk about many Italian artists in your book, some of them almost unknown to
the great public. If you were to publish this book in English, would you change
this?
FN: I don’t
think so. I was quite surprised that most people who read this book didn’t
know artists such as Chiara; she’s been working within this realm for quite
some time. Others, like Cesare Viel, are better known for other works that have
nothing to do with this book. The one mentioned here is a series of performances
titled Disordine Emotivo Autogestito where he enters very banal situations, with
a table, a mirror, a tape recorder that tells stories on why men dress up. Then
he puts on make-up and takes it off, scribbling notes on a piece of paper. He
repeats this many times and at the end he throws away the paper, dances around
the table then leaves. The final goal here is the alienation of the spectator,
and the same goes for the photograph “who are you today?”, where Viel
is seen putting make-up on.
Other artists, like Ampelio Zappalorto, have been using the concept of transformation
in many different ways. Often he uses digital imaging to mix part of the faces
of himself, his parents and his girlfriend. The work I included here is where
he really decides to be someone else. He transforms into two very precise icons,
Joseph Beuys and Adolf Hitler. I think it’s a very strong work. Andrea Renzini,
with Lift¸ turns himself into an elevator boy, into something other. It’s
not by chance he used the English word, and not the American one. He reproduces
the elevator in the gallery, but this doesn’t go anywhere. Then there’s
a series of photographs where welcomes people, checks himself out in the mirror
and so on.
Then you have artists such as Francesco Impellizzeri who deal with more “classical”
transgender issues. His alter egos not only have a life of their own, but they
also sing, so their albums are available, all this is quite funny.
SP: After
having studied all these artists, do you think there is an issue common to them
all?
FN: The
origin of travesty is the necessity to search the obscure side of us. Since always
man has had the need to classify and differentiate male and female genders. In
reality this doesn’t simplify things, in facts this make things more complicated,
producing further ambiguity. Whereas you have a male context you will find the
desire to make possible and belong to the other gender. Baudrillard sustained
that transvestites are neither transsexuals nor homosexuals. They are simply
people who decide not to use either of each gender, or to play both of them using
the duplicity of signals that this implies. It’s the adult game.
